Rebecca's Interview with Barbara Mendenhall, Riki Intner, Lynn Lott

Authors of Do it Yourself Therapy

From: Lynn Lott:
Hi there, Just popped into Amazon.Com & saw your review of Chores Without Wars. Wow! Lucky us. I'm so glad you like our book. & I laughed & laughed when I read your review. Thank you.

Would I be out of line to ask if you have read Do-It-Yourself Therapy? I'll send you a copy to review if you'd like. I would love to know what you think.
Lynn Lott

Rebecca :
I am so thrilled you found my review & it got you laughing because that's what you book did for me!

You would not be out of line in the least to send me your Do-It-Yourself Therapy. Where were you 30 years ago when I was new to the landscape of motherhood; when I realized I needed help because neither my choices nor reactions were working. So I walked into a community mental health center, settled the kids in the play area & told the receptionist I was in trouble & better get me a counsellor - quick! My question is: is Do-It-Yourself Therapy; How To Think, Feel, & Act like a New Person In Just 8 Weeks for real? I mean, why hasn't the FDA or the APA shut you down?

Lynn :
Hmm, let's see. 30 years ago I was enjoying my first born, pregnant with my second & living out my lifelong(of that time)dream to be a mom with lots of kids. Three books that I read at that time radically affected the direction of my life. The most important book was a gift - Rudolf Dreikur's & Vicki Soltz's Children: The Challenge. Thankfully someone had written down what was in my heart but didn't have words for. It became my parenting “bible”. I taught parenting groups as a volunteer & attended conferences to learn more about how other Adlerian psychologists thought & used the information. I did a master's program creating opportunities for folks to make the ideas part of their lives.

Then I read The Woman's Room. I realized I was a combination of two characters: the one who indexed her cleaning chores & another who was violent & angry & bombing places to create a new world. I never went to either extreme, but I did realize that role-assigned work was discriminatory & I would create a new & better world for families!

Finally, Betty Friedan's The Feminine Mystique rounded out my journey, especially reminding me that we fill the job to fit the time available. I vowed then & there that I would make time for a balanced life, & I did!

Do-It-Yourself Therapy is for real. It's the review of my journey so far. I think theories are only as good as they stand up to the reality of the human experience & are able to be used & applied on a daily basis. I've been an empirical scientist forever & the book contains what I find to be true & healthy.

Why aren't we banned? I wish our book was widely enough read to cause that kind of stir. We don't have the budget of the drug companies to promote our book. A better question is why do people want to cling to the medical model that looks at problems as dis-eases with pills to fix them? There is so much awful information out there, it's amazing people cope at all. Our aim is to be part of a healthy community of folks who are wanting respectful relationships, including the one with themselves & who are willing to do the work to make them happen.

Riki :
Just by reading our book someone isn't likely to become a totally different person, but anyone who reads Do-It-Yourself Therapy & does the exercises & activities will be able to make changes in their lives, so yes, it's for real! They probably haven't shut us down because they can't find the book!!

Barbara :
Do-It-Yourself Therapy is for real, all right! It's full of ideas that work, according to our separate & combined real-life experience with clients & with our own lives & relationships. It's not what you might call “conventional wisdom”, in that it relies upon & harnesses each person's own capabilities & motivation to take charge of life & make things better, when given some alternative ways of thinking to consider for themselves, & some coaching, rather than looking to some outside “expert” who supposedly knows better than they do to tell them what to do as if they have no responsibility or knowledge of their own. We haven't been “shut down”, as you say, because, so far, there's still a first amendment.

Rebecca :
There are a lot of books out about losing weight to making a will to learning a new language - learning what pulls our strings, presses our buttons is pretty strong medicine! For those of us with a few therapy sessions under our belts could we do this alone? Why would we want to? What if we can't afford or live too far from a counsellor?

Riki :
Perhaps, I know that our book makes a great adjunct to therapy. If you're in therapy & like your therapist & find the process helpful you wouldn't want to do it alone. There are people who don't have access to a therapist or wouldn't go to therapy, so hopefully our book could be helpful to them. Isn't that what “self help” books are about?

Barbara :
You can do a lot on your own. Just try it. It's more empowering than relying on someone else to “do it for you”. You know the thing about teaching someone to grow & harvest food instead of just giving them a plateful. Same idea. If you can't afford or live too far from a counselor, this is one of the things Do-It-Yourself Therapy is designed to address.

Lynn :
Therapy is about learning skills & awareness. You can never have too many arrows in your quiver when it comes to skills or insight, so our book can help you whether you work on your own or with a therapist. It's set up to help you succeed alone or to use in conjunction with therapy. If you are seeing a therapist who thinks you have a disease & that your problems are caused by chemical imbalances or family genes, you might want to find a new therapist who has a different framework for looking at problems, or you could end up working at cross purposes. The choice is yours, as your therapist works for & with you.

Rebecca :
For those of us who have never given a thought to mental health, what are the clues we should look for to know when our life isn't working?

Barbara :
Your feelings. If you notice something you're unsatisfied with, unhappy with, angry about, frustrated over, or irritated/annoyed, you can do something instead of just whining or fuming or settling. You're not either healthy or sick, with a life that works or doesn't. It's a continuum. Everyone can use tools to improve their various relationships & aspects of their lives. Some people are happier or more miserable than others. They can all learn something from Do-It-Yourself Therapy.

Lynn :
What are the clues that warn you that your life isn't working? Are you comparing yourself to others & constantly coming up short? Do you believe that you are a victim & have no control over how your life ends up? When you make a mistake, do you think you are a bad person? Do you feel discouraged & hopeless? These would be some of the clues that your life isn't working. If you are in a relationship where someone is allowed to emotionally or physically abuse you, it's also time to get some help. Bottom line, I think all of us can benefit from learning more about ourselves & how we function in relationships, so I see therapy as a gift, not a last ditch effort to save ourselves.

Riki :
Most people recognize when they're not “happy” or feeling fulfilled or satisfied. They often don't understand why but they feel a dis–ease. If you pay attention to your feelings you'll know. Sometimes others are glad to point out that your life isn't working. Listen, check in, take what's yours & leave what's not.

Rebecca :
There's an old Yiddish saying: If three people tell you your drunk, go lie down. When I was in therapy, sorting through my reactions & wondering what to do with my life I was always asking my counsellor for tools, for homework. Do-It-Yourself Therapy is all about those tools & that homework. Tell me a little of how you three designed the weekly formulas?

Riki :
We've each worked for many years & shared what's been helpful with our clients. We worked & reworked every part of the book so you have 3 perspectives at work designing the weekly formulas & we state that people may chose to use parts or go “out of order”.

Lynn :
Riki, Barbara & I have always looked for ways to apply what we teach, so it was a natural step to design homework activities at the end of each chapter. We firmly believe that if all we do is talk without doing, change is hopeless. It takes practice & long lasting change. & they are fun!

Barbara :
We brain stormed. We've been using all the concepts in the book for years, & we just thought about the many assignments or exercises that might give readers more experience/practice with the tools in that week's reading & wrote them out. We tried to make sure all our favorite & most effective exercises/activities we do with our clients got included in the book somewhere.

Rebecca :
When I read the statement about getting out of my “emotional kindergarten“ I jumped out of my socks. I'm a grown up! How can I be that immature in this old of a body? Does age matter? Why change?

Riki :
It's our way of describing that at times “our kid” is calling the shots in our adult bodies. When we understand that & have perspective we find more options open up. Change if what you're doing isn't working. Each person gets to make that decision since no one can make someone change.

Barbara :
I don't know that it helps to label yourself immature. When we're stressed & discouraged (read “don't know what else to do at the moment” or “are operating without awareness”) we all revert to the strategies we devised as little kids without even knowing it (these were the best we could do at the time, given our limited knowledge & experience). The more we raise our awareness of our thoughts, feelings, behaviors & how these are interconnected, the less time we spend in emotional kindergarden.

Growing up is a process that only stops at death. Maybe not even then, I guess. Why change? So you can enjoy life more, have more satisfying relationships. We find that when relationships with others (at work, home, community) are strong & satisfying & functioning well, people inevitably feel happier about most everything & are physically more healthy as well.

Lynn :
For some of us, we may be getting older but we refuse to grow up. It's never too late to learn about ourselves, make changes & improve relationships. Once you get over your resistance to change, you'll probably wonder why you waited so long. I started taking yoga classes two years ago & found that more muscles had atrophied than still worked. I am working hard to get flexibility, strength & tone back into my life. Therapy is like that: it helps us flex & use our mental & emotional muscles.

Rebecca :
I know you say that I'll be like a new person in just 8 weeks - I'm already seeing changes in the way I deal with my panic attacks & the imbalances in the way I react to things - surely this will continue as I keep working through the exercises in Do-It-Yourself Therapy?

Barbara :
Of course. This book has eight weeks worth of material. The more & the longer you practice any of the ideas, the greater the change you'll experience. It took a lifetime to get to where you are. Where you're going takes the rest of your life, & it starts right now.

Lynn :
When you start reading our book, you'll make many changes without even trying. Then there will be the changes that come from more intention & practice. Each time you read a section, you'll see things you missed before. Change is a journey, not a destination, & you can keep working through the book & the exercises over & over for continued learning & personal growth. if you really are feeling brave, do the exercises with another person or form a support group & share them with each other to stretch yourself even further.

Riki :
Absolutely, we tend to build on successes. If you keep working you'll see more changes.

Rebecca :
This stuff is Dyn-0-Mite! Do you have to be good at writing for this book to work?

Lynn :
You don't have to be good at writing for this book to work. You can think about what you would say, try things out in real time, use pictures to record your journey, talk into a tape recorder or tell another person. Make sure the person you talk to knows how to listen without judging, fixing or advising.

Riki :
No! You have to be open to new ideas, to taking personal responsibility (oh joy), to taking risks & trying new things & trying again.

Barbara :
Heck no! The activities & exercises that involve writing aren't graded or evaluated in any way. They're just for you to get information about yourself.

Rebecca :
Having to give up “magical thinking” was a toughie for I didn't realize how much I used it! It's got nothing to do with your magic wand, right?

Riki :
Sort of. Using a magic wand is freeing in that it allows you to expand your vision, to free you up to try on a different way of thinking. Magical thinking is wishing reality would be different than it is. For example, every night my husband lies on the couch watching TV for as long as I've known him but I still hold onto the thinking that one night, soon, he'll get up & take out the garbage; it ain't gonna happen!!

Barbara :
True. Magical thinking has to do with refusing to see reality. The magic wand is a way of visioning & identifying a desired change.

Lynn :
Magical thinking is a way of minimizing reality. It's the habit of expecting things to change if you wait long enough, do nothing, hope others will do the work & fix your life for you. It's the notion that there could be a pill to teach you relationship skills. It's the hope that others will change & then your life will be “peachy“. It doesn't work & more & more of it only makes your life less manageable. It is victim mentality & extremely passive.

We do give examples of pretending you have a magic wand & using it to create new pictures or to heal yourself. This is very different from magical thinking. When you pretend to have a magic wand, you know that you are imagining something & that it isn't real. But using it helps you define things. It is amazing how much healing can happen & how many options you can see when you use the “wand“ to create new mental pictures. With magical thinking, you believe that your unrealistic thinking is the truth!

We all indulge in magical thinking. Here's an example of the difference between magical thinking & using the magic wand. I can wish that I had a larger office & hope that if I wait long enough, someone will know that is what I want & tell me about one that is available. They will, of course, have to be a mind reader, so it might take forever for anything to change. Or I might even try to convince myself that the small office I currently have is fine. When I pretend I have a magic wand, I end up in a very different place. I use it to help me see what isn't obvious to me. I'm such a practical person, that it is hard for me to let myself wish for that which I cannot have. The wand helps me allow myself to wish & be creative. I begin by pretending I can have any kind of office I'd like. I picture a place with high ceilings in an old building near a bustling part of town. The floors are wood & the halls are wide. Now I start actively looking for office space & voila! I have a picture in my mind of what I am looking for. So when I find cramped quarters in the suburbs near a shopping mall, I keep looking, knowing it's not my picture.

Rebecca :
I found the “Top Cards” really useful tools - even made my own as they gave me something visual & tangible to work with; have you considered creating a deck of cards to go with the book?

Riki :
No, but that's an interesting idea. Could I see the ones you made & how you used them??

Barbara :
Cute idea. We'll talk about it when we get together next.

Lynn :
I love your suggestion about making a deck of cards to go with the book. With Top Cards we have pictures & stories with affirmation, but no deck of cards. I find the Top Card information some of the most interesting & fun to work with. I recently gave an in-service training for a group of teachers. They discovered their Top Cards using the methods recommended in our book. Then they broke into groups & drew a picture of the teacher with the corresponding Top Card. The teacher had a conversation bubble & was saying something appropriate for the particular card. The teachers could laugh at themselves & with each other about how they behave when they are feeling nervous & stressed. I am having the pictures copied & laminated for their teachers' lounge as a reminder not to get so serious about themselves & to accept who they are more readily.

Rebecca :
I'll get them saved as an attachment & email them to you. The lessons on encouraging language was an eye-opener to me. I was raised on the praise/criticism seesaw & the difference with appreciation/compliments is noticeable! Wow! How do you “see” those sort of subtle differences?

Barbara :
Pay attention to the feelings you experience in response to what you or someone else says. Praise & criticism may trigger feelings of unease or elation or anger or resentment, & leave you focusing outward on someone else & wondering how to measure up or win the other's approval. Encouragement tends to result in a quiet inward-focused satisfaction, a sense of validation.

Lynn :
When I first read Children: The Challenge, I was introduced to the differences between praise & encouragement & struggled with it for along time. I was also raised on praise, which is fine as long as I was succeeding. All of us need words of encouragement when things aren't going so well, or when we stumble & fall. Praise is goal-oriented, while encouragement is process-oriented. In our book, we stress that the process is more important than the product. There is no finish line for life, so it's how you go through it that counts. If you are constantly chasing a goal instead of enjoying the moments along the way, you aren't being encouraging to yourself. So we work on ways to encourage ourselves & others with honest feedback about the process. Instead of: “You are a good person...“(praise) - we say: “I notice you hang in there even when the going is tough. Good for you!“ There's the difference.

Riki :
If you send me your address I'll send you a chart from a different book Positive discipline for parenting in Recovery that describes the difference between praise & encouragement.

Rebecca :
What are your next projects & do you have any public appearances we should know about?

Lynn :
I am currently working on applying the ideas from Do-It-Yourself Therapy & the Positive Discipline books I co-authored to help folks raise their dogs with kindness & firmness. I'm also working on a book about the writer's process with mystery writer Nancy Pickard, & have started another book to show you how your childhood memories predict the life you will live. Instead of making appearance, I've worked more on getting people to come to me. I offer a retreat at Tahoe every summer for folks who want to learn the ideas & how to apply them. I see clients in my office & when i'm not playing, I write, write, write. It would be magical thinking to believe I could be flitting from engagement to engagement while still doing everything else. I tried for years & then took out my magic wand, pictured a calmer life of chaos & stopped traveling so much.

Riki :
I'm thinking of a game but we'll see. & No.

Rebecca :
Do you have anything else you would like to say about Do-It-Yourself Therapy?

Lynn :
If I could, I would send a copy of Do-It-Yourself Therapy to every person in the world. If only one out of one thousand read it, we would all be feeling better, doing better & treating each other with more respect.

Thank you for helping others learn about these ideas by reviewing our book & being so kind as to Interview us. Your questions show me you have read the book & understand what we are trying to accomplish. You are a very encouraging person & I feel privileged to have met you on the vast Internet. Isn't this an incredible time that two people could meet so easily in cyberspace?

Riki :
It's a great book that isn't on book store shelves. Seems to me a strange way to market. Do you know Oprah?

Rebecca :
I wish I did know Oprah! Thank you, you three wise women, for making a difference in my life & I wish you success with Do-It-Yourself Therapy & all your healing work.

Readers, you may want to see my review of Chores Without Wars by Lynn Lott & Riki Intner

Published September 17, 2000