Rebecca Brown's Interview with
Rev. Marie D. Jones
Author of
Looking For God In All The Wrong Places

Rebecca:
It is with great pleasure that I introduce the Reverend Marie D. Jones, who has been our enthusiastic Associate Reviewer of books religious, spiritual & is now expanding to children's. We have been corresponding about our “take” on life & I think you're going to enjoy her visit!

So, naturally my first question has to be: when did you realize that religion could do with a dose of humor?

Rev. Marie:
From a very early age, I realized the power & importance of laughter & making people laugh. Because I was so connected with God via nature as a child, & nature made me laugh, I guess that's when I began associating humor with God, joyfulness, playfulness, release, total freedom of expression. I was always a bit of a smartass, & that hasn't changed. Nowadays, it's hard not to see the need for more humor & joy in religion. Religious people have become way too serious, mean, hostile, busy, inconsiderate, hypocritical, judgmental. Heck, they've taken all of the joy out of knowing God!!!

More humor means more inner peace, happiness & acceptance of others, which means less war, less violence, less hatred. BRING ON THE CLOWNS!!!

Rebecca:
In the past, we simply grew up within our parents' religions, so why are we today hunting for God??

Rev. Marie:
Many of us stick with the religious traditions of our families of origin, whether we buy into those traditions or not. It's just easier to believe in what you are told or what someone else believes in. Takes a lot less work. But many others grow up & away from their family religions because they feel an emptiness that these religions cannot fill.

Of course, that does not mean the religion of our parents is not something we can accept for ourselves, but the decision must come from within, & hopefully after many years of really digging deep into our own souls for what our personal truths are. In my opinion, the meanest & most cruel people on the planet are people who claim to believe in something they don't really believe in! They are frustrated, anxious & fearful & they tend to be the most “vocal” about being Christian or Jewish or Muslim, yet their behavior is quite the opposite. I think of many top dogs in our current presidential administration ... all talk, no walk. Religion has become more of a weapon than a force of light lately.

We hunt for God because we are hunting for our true selves, & for our connection with that truth. Until we find it, we keep on hunting, & sometimes, it even leads us right back to the religion of our youth. More times than not, though, it leads us far, far from it.

Rebecca:
What has spirituality got to do with anything?

Rev. Marie:
EVERYTHING!!! You & I have talked about this many times! Religion can be described as “knowing about God” whereas spirituality is “knowing God.” Spirituality is what happens when you finally find your truth, & your God, whatever form that might take. Spirituality is real, it is personal, & it is based upon empirical experiences of the Divine. Religion, while it can encompass actual personal experience, tends to be more about following set rules & doctrines, even if what you feel in your heart & soul tells you something different. Religion is restrictive, conservative, structural. Spirituality is freeing, expansive, giving.

Too many people associate the word ‘spirituality’ with flighty New Age stuff, & hey, I am not dissing New Age, so much good has come out of it. But the word itself leads people to think of really flaky stuff -- when in fact, truly spiritual people are deeply centered, powerful & effective human beings. Which is why they tend not to cluster in big groups, like “religious” people prefer to do.

Spirituality never allows for harm to another, or following another blindly. Religion has become something of a cult today, with people blindly pledging their soul allegiance to a God they don't even understand, or to a holy book they have never studied in detail. That's scary to me. Spiritual people never really follow anybody, which may be why they come off to the more traditionally religious as flighty & flaky.

Rebecca:
You write about that feeling we have when we meet our “soul mate” & how he/she “completes” us. What's wrong with this picture?

Rev. Marie:
We are not born halfsies. We are born whole & complete, therefore another person cannot complete us. They can compliment us, add to our joy, be our best pals, even be our better half! But we are not born with any missing pieces. As we get older & lose our natural childhood connection to our union with the Universe & nature, though, I can see how people start to feel the need to fill up from outside, & the most natural “filler” is another person! Better if we can learn that we are whole, & OK, alone, so that when we do meet someone & decide to go through life together, it is a healthy union of two wholes, not a desperate merging of two halves.

Rebecca:
Ok, so what's the difference between the messenger & the message, & why can not making that distinction cause grief?

Rev. Marie:
Arghhhh ... just look at the world around us today & we see plenty of examples of men & women who claim to be moral & holy killing everything in sight, destroying the environment, trying to control others, judging & condemning everyone, etc. The messenger is very often way too flawed to actually deliver the message!

We need to focus on the teachings more than the teachers. Even in the case of Christ, we really know so little about him & his motives that we must be careful not to turn him into something he was not or claim his life was a certain way (think Mel Gibson). What we do know is what he said, with some accuracy based upon decades of solid scholarship, & that is what the focus of Christianity should be on, just as Islam should be focusing on the teachings of Mohammed, not the man himself. This goes for any religion or spiritual system.

Messengers are vehicles of expression, & they can be really great people, but they are NOT the message itself, just channels for it. Also, they are human, & that means they are capable of screwing up, misinterpreting, misleading, lying, cheating, stealing & a whole lot more.

Think of it this way -- when the UPS man brings you a big package with a cool gift inside, you focus joyfully on the gift, not the UPS guy ... well, I take that back. Our UPS man is a cutey-pie. But you get my drift.

Rebecca:
Ours too! What do we sacrifice when we worship the Almighty Dollar?

Rev. Marie:
Sanity, serenity, joy, inner peace, simplicity, relationships, harmony, integrity, honesty ... Oh, I could go on! Look, I really enjoy money, not the bills & coins themselves (germ carriers!), but I really enjoy what money brings & what I can do with it. But worship it? Why???

Money is nothing more than an exchange of energy -- I pay you to do something for me, or vice versa. It is a medium, a middle man. Wanting to make a lot of money is not bad or evil, but worshipping money makes you & everyone around you sick. It is focusing way too much on outside stuff that causes us to one day hit the wall & realize just how empty we are on the inside. Money tempts us to ignore our insides because we get so much validation of our worth from what we are accumulating & how others are reacting. That kind of ego stroking can really lead us down the wrong path. It is very convincing & sure can feel good while it's happening! But what happens to us when the money runs out? If we don't have a solid center, we fall apart.

BUT, having said that, I must say that NOT having enough money causes just as much grief because it is a denial of our unity with an abundant & prospering Universe, & a God that overflows with good. When we are poor, we are cut off from this flow of abundance, & that can be just as painful as having too much money & not having a soul to go along with it.

Balance & a healthy respect for money is the key.

Rebecca:
What do we leave behind when we exit our house of worship after a weekly service, & what is the Holy Land?

Rev. Marie:
Many people leave their holiness & peace behind when they exit their church or temple. It's as if they think it's OK to just be “good” when they are at service, & that anything goes the rest of the time! But this may not be all their fault, for it is much easier to focus on God & our connection to God in a place that is devoted to that purpose, & we are so scattered & have such short attention spans that as soon as we leave such a place, we allow “life” to come crashing back in & stir up our serenity. It is very hard to carry with you that feeling of holiness, harmony & connectedness you had in service once you go home & have to pay bills, yell at the dog, argue with the neighbors & deal with that visit from your in-laws!!!

The Holy Land is where we are, the sacred ground right beneath our feet. The Holy Land is within us, once we have awakened to our connection with our Higher Power, & with everything & everyone around us. Then, we become our own walking, talking house of worship!

Rebecca:
In this age of Costco bulk buying, 9 minute (or less!) attention-spans, & pre-approved credit card junk mail, how can less be more?

Rev. Marie:
The less stuff we have to keep up with & maintain, the more time we have for our inner lives, our families & friends, our dreams & goals, & just being. Too much stuff & too much activity serves only to clutter our minds & spirits like a junk closet. Then, one day we try to open the closet door & we are buried in a huge mess that takes years to get in order. Less is always more, because less outside interference means more inside coherence.

Rebecca:
I came up in a society which, centuries ago, had protested & dumped one faith & created another from the same source. Naturally, in time, the new faith became steeped in tradition. Tell us about the power of tradition.

Rev. Marie:
Tradition is history. Tradition is the collective memory of a people passed down throughout generations. It can be a beautiful thing, but only when it continues to serve people in a positive & empowering fashion. If a tradition has worn out its welcome, then those engaging in it will tend to be frustrated & disconnected, just going along to get along. I think people have to examine the traditions of their heritage & decide for themselves what serves them & what does not. Family traditions are wonderful, especially around holidays, & can be such a powerful link between blood relatives. But anyone who is not enjoying the tradition should not continue partaking in it just to please the rest of the brood. They must find & create new traditions they can feel good about. Otherwise, what's the point?

All new faith & tradition is really based upon ancient wisdom & ritual, just shuffled around a bit. What's that saying, “Everything old is new again?” I am afraid we humans are not as creative & innovative as we like to think! But what's good about what you described above is that, over time, we can eliminate beliefs & traditions that harm us or create injustice & then add new traditions to our faith that better serve everyone involved, always shaping & re-shaping our new faith until it resonates deep within as being true for us.

Rebecca:
Coming to America was the best thing I could have done for my soul, it is a fleamarket of religions. What need we to look out for when searching for the “real thing”?

Rev. Marie:
Oh, I suppose the same stuff you should look out for when buying a new car or a house or a pair of jeans! Does it fit right? Does it serve you? Does it make your heart sing? Does it come in a size smaller, & maybe in blue, please???

I think our innermost being knows what is right for us & what isn't, & it is critical that we let our intuition guide us along the spiritual path. The deep inner wisdom we all have will tell us what is best for us, much more so than any advice from Dr. Phil or our best friend or even our priest or pastor or rabbi. I hate to sound cliché, but when you find the “real thing,” you just know it! Something inside just clicks & everything makes sense.

Not that your spirituality won't grow & change & even mutate into something else years down the road, but your path will remain the same because it is YOUR path -- rocks & boulders & pitfalls & detours & rest stops & all. Your path is what you are seeking, not someone else's. You'll know it when you get on it because you will feel whole & expansive & opened up & alive & everything will seem to fall into place.

That is why it is so important that, once you've read all the inspirational books & attended the seminars & gone to churches, that you finally just go off on your own, get quiet, & let your heart & your spirit lead you. So, off you go!

Rebecca:
Thank you, Reverend Marie, for both writing an entertaining & informative read. Is there anything else you'd like to say?

Rev. Marie:
To get serious for a moment, we are at a very precarious place in history, & our species just might do itself in if we don't come together & realize that we are all connected to one another at the deepest level. & guess what, I've got pure physics to back me up. There is such a thing as the Zero Point Field, which quantum physicists now believe is the permeating force throughout the Universe that connects every single thing to every other thing, & back to the Field itself.

We are all connected, so what harm you do to someone else, you do to yourself. & what harm you do to the Mama Earth, you do to all of us. It's time to come together & focus on promoting peace, prosperity, health & stewardship for all.

Do unto others. Love one another. Spread peace. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

Oh, & go ahead & have some carbs. It won't kill you!

Rebecca:
Do catch Millicent M. Savino's review of Rev. Marie D. Jones' Looking For God In All The Wrong Places - I hope it makes you go out & buy yourself a copy!

Rebecca Brown
Published 05/16/04